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Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I am your host, Jaimi, as always. And this week I have Dan Dinelli here with me, who is the general manager of Move Homes. And we will be chatting to you about brick veneer steel frame construction and give you all the education and knowledge that you need to know about that specific construction method.

So, thank you so much for joining me here today, Dan. Thanks for having me. No worries. Um, could you introduce yourself to everyone? Sure. So, uh, Daniel, General Manager for Move Homes. I'm part of the prime group. I've worked for Joe and the family now for 14 years. Very long time. Yeah. Uh, over a third of my life has been spent in that building, so it's a little bit depressing to think about, but no, they treat me well.

We always try to do the right thing by the clients as much as we can. Yeah. And just, yeah, it's a really nice place to work. That's good. Good. Yeah. And I think we've been working together for three years now. Yeah. Three and a half, four years. Or whenever you started in the industry, really. Three years.

Straight there. Yeah. Yeah. That's good, yeah. All right, well now tell us a little bit about brick veneer and steel frame construction. Sure, um, in a traditional double brick home you've got the external layer of brick then you've got a space in between that and the internal layer of brick and that's called the cavity space which is kind of like a little air gap which lets moisture in between the bricks somewhere to sit and then you'll see weep holes.

In a traditional brick build for people that don't know, it's little gaps in your mortar where the moisture can escape. So the cavity or that space in between and the external brick for us doesn't change. So the house looks identical to every other house. It's just, we take the internal brick work and replace it with.

A steel frame on the outside of the steel frame. We have, it's a wrap, but it's called sarking as the technical term. And that helps a little bit with thermal properties, but it keeps moisture away from the steel frame. And then inside the steel frame, we actually pack it with. Insulation. So similar kind of insulation you got in your roof, we just put in your walls as well.

And yeah, that's how you can compare it. Um, on the inside of the house, um, traditionally on a double brick home, you would do a white set plaster, which just is what a normal wall would look like. We use a plasterboard and I know now a lot of builders are actually using plasterboards on the brick internally as well.

So everyone's doing a little bit of everything, which is kind of cool to see. Yeah. Yeah, cool. And so you've got, yeah, inside with your steel frame and your garage and the outside and everything still looks the same as a normal double brick house. So you've got the choice as a frame builder, um, if you want to frame in part of your garage, but where you choose to brick just so it looks like every other house.

Yeah. Yeah. I know when we had a lot of clients picking between steel frame and double brick, it was a lot of. Oh, we still want it to look the same so you can drive into the garage and you can still say, Oh yeah, it is double brick and you walk into the house, you actually can't tell that it's steel frame.

Yep. Yeah. Awesome. And can you tell us about why Move and Prime decided to go with steel frame? Yeah, sure. So the choice has been talked about for a long time. I think a lot of builders had been toying with the idea. We were probably a unique position because we've got a division on the East Coast based in Melbourne and the Melbourne market, they only build in brick veneer.

Yeah. Practically everywhere outside of Perth Metro builds in some sort of lightweight brick veneer construction. Perth Metro is the only place in Australia, which is like double bricks for life. Sorry. Look, where we had a lot of experience with it, we could see the conundrum facing the industry with the bricklayer shortage.

Um, but it was not only delays of the bricklayers we're concerned about, it was also the quality. Um, so we, we'd always have it in our back of the mind, I guess it kind of pushed us a little bit quicker than what we would have, would have otherwise. Um, but there's a lot of benefits for us in choosing a steel frame construction, but the main thing really is to give clients a choice.

Just like you'd go into pre-sign, you're going to select your base and then you select your taps. It seemed weird to not give people the option of how you want to build your home, which is, you know, for us a key. Important thing. Um, I know a lot of people might not care cause I just want to look, go into their house and it looks nice, but we're finding there's quite a lot of educated purchasers out there now who want a specific building type.

Building type. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people are definitely doing their research and understanding before they even come to us to decide what they want to do. So it's good that they have the option with construction method as well. Yep. So talking about the construction methods, um, how we view it is. For example, you can't build a steel frame home within 300 meters of the coast.

It would void your warranty with Blue Scope on the steel. Okay. Um, so in that scenario, we would recommend a timber frame home. You can get all the benefits of a steel frame home, but it would just be in timber instead. Whereas if you're in a bush fire area, you want to build in steel, building in timber will be a lot more expensive.

Likewise, if you've got a very skinny lot where you have to build both sides of your home on the boundary. It's physically impossible to build that lightweight unless you're going to start doing tilting panels, which means your house looks completely different from what everyone expects. So for that, we still build double brick.

So we actually build in multiple methods. It's not just the one method. Yep. And that's a good way of putting it, depending where you build as well. That should come into factor and your block and things like that as well. Yes. Are there any specific considerations or benefits for first home buyers when it comes to steel frame construction?

Yeah, look, I think there's a couple of things. One, the, probably the main thing for first home buyers, I think that they, gives them value and they actually care about is we can do high ceilings very cost efficiently. I know you spoke in a previous episode about no builder gives anything away from free, which is a hundred percent accurate at the moment.

Everyone's very concerned about margins. Making sure they're a strong, sustainable, stable builder. Yep. But we've got a technique where you don't need to change the external brickwork, but you can get an extra couple of courses height in your home. You think about, from a practical point of view, if I'm building a double brick and I want to raise my ceiling heights, I need to add external bricks on the outside and internal bricks on the inside to get the height.

We've got a technique where we don't have to change the external brickwork. We increase the internal height of the steel frame and we can get a higher ceiling. That means you save the price of all the additional bricks on the outside. The installers, it doesn't cost you any extra because if it's standing a wall, you're standing a wall anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

So it's a very good competitive advantage for us of people who want high ceilings. We can do it at a very cost effective way for them. Yeah. Through the construction method, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a lot of clients go with that as well. Most of them do. And that's a major benefit. Behind the scenes, there's a whole bunch of benefits, which people may or may not care about.

One of them is the quality control. So, when we order our wall frames and steel roof frames, steel roof trusses is the technical term, they 3D model the house for us. So they've got this program that 3D models it so they can see what works, what doesn't, are we going to run into any issues? And they give those 3D models to the guys installing on site as well.

Um, it's very intuitive for them to follow. It's like putting together a complex Lego set if you want, but also a lot of it's prefabbed in the factory. So it's fabricated in the factory, which is a controlled setting to the point where when they build their roof trusses, they've got a machine where you lay out the parts and it actually drills it in.

Oh wow. So part of the roof is constructed in a factory, which means, you know, it's going to be straight. You know, it's going to be true. It's going to be perfect to the plan. So from a. Quality control perspective. It's a really great material to use. The other big advantages in a couple of years, we're all going to have to go to seven star energy ratings, which is going to be a fun, fun, fun experience.

We've already done a whole bunch of work around that and had independent energy engineers have a look at our plans. On average, a steel frame house compared to a steel frame house compared to a double brick house will be 0. 8 star higher. Yeah, wow. Which is huge. That is, yeah. If we need to jump from 6 to 7 star, we've already got a 0.

8 star advantage. We're almost there. So, it's a much more energy efficient home for people, which means it's cheaper to run, cost of living is an issue right now. It will be a cheaper household to live in long term. And I know like one question, a lot of people always ask is what is, how does the difference in the noise and the heating and cooling with brick veneer?

Yeah. Great question. So heating and cooling with the 0. 8 extra star, it is actually a more efficient home. Yep. So in that regard, thermally, it. It works better than double brick in regards to sound, it's negligible, um, and it's negligible for us because we actually put insulation in the internal walls as well.

So a few other steel builders will only do it on the external walls. We do it internally as well. We don't have to, there's no regulation saying we do. But we do that to match up with the double brick noise transfer. And another question that everyone always gets so worried about is how do you hang TVs and paintings on the wall?

Yeah. And why is that different to brick? Yeah, yeah. Great, great question. I guess just because it's foreign for us living in Perth. Yeah. And I always like to say, it's crazy because like everywhere else in the country, they have TVs and paintings hanging on the wall, right? Like how do they do it? Is this magic?

No, it's um, it's pretty simple. You just need a stud finder. You can get, pick them up from Bunnings and you just need a specific type of screw to screw in. For a stud finder. Um, you just run it against the wall. It'll beep where you need to drill into. And then you can always, you know, make a lot of jokes with your wife or your partner, point it at them.

Beep beep beep beep beep. Yeah, I found the start. So, you know, you get all that fun as well. Funny, I like that joke. I've got to admit, I have done that before. Yeah, I'm sure Erica would have loved that. Cool. All right. Yeah, so it's easy and it's doable. It's not the end of the world. No, It's the end of the world.

Yeah. How does the cost of steel frame brick veneer compared to traditional brick construction? It changes because obviously Hard question. Yeah, we're in a state of flux with the market at the moment. It changes, you know, sometimes it's a little bit cheaper, sometimes a little bit more expensive. But we think with the value for money it provides, with the high ceiling detail, with the additional energy efficiencies you get out of it.

We never try to be the cheapest builder. We just want to be the best value for money builder. And that plays into kind of our offering. Um, to give you an idea, we offer people both construction methods. You can build double brick or steel. And I would say 95% of. Our homes would be steel frame, steel frame.

Yeah. So we've got such a good value proposition that people go, yeah, I'm happy with that technique. That's what I want to build. Yeah. Yeah. So the higher energy. The high ceilings and internal painting. Yes, yes. Wall painting, wall painting. It's a huge bonus, huge, massive. Everyone who's ever had to paint a house before would go back in time.

I'm sure. I'm going, if I could afford it, please. Can someone else add it in? Sorry. Because we do the plasterboard on the inside, it's a lot easier to paint as well than the white set plaster. Yep. The other benefit is you don't get a lot of corners cracking as well, which is quite good. You don't need a the reason behind that?

Um, the reason behind that is you've got your plasterboard on the wall. Yep. Your plasterboard on the ceiling and your corners and it's all made of the same product. So it's going to expand and contract at the same time. And then not cause the issues that you would in a normal double brick. Yeah, because it's brick versus timber, two different materials.

Yeah, or brick versus steel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, same thing. So on top of the wall painting, and this is an exclusive for you, Jamie, because we actually haven't launched anything yet. We're actually working with Lamin x on a product and I know you've got this in your house where you can do the feature panelling on your walls.

Oh yes, VJ panelling. Yes. Yes. So nice. Yes, and you had to install that after handover. I did, yeah. I roped a friend into it and he, I told him it was going to be a one day job and it was definitely not a one day job and I think I still owe him for beers for that. We're working through a product, um, that's.

pretty close to launching where we'll replace the plasterboard and you can do a feature panel board on the wall instead. So you can have that luxury finish as part of your home delivered by us. Um, and we're actually putting that into our new display in Piero Waters, which will hopefully open before the end of the year.

So. Um, we're very excited about that because it's like a very cool luxury style finish, but at an affordable price for people. Yeah. And is there a price difference with adding it on compared to your normal wall? Yeah. Yeah, there is. Not high end luxury cost. Correct. Cause you're replacing one product with another.

But you're still going to be paying the installers to install it. It's a little bit more technical, but for your home, you would have had to pay someone to come and do the plastering. And then you had to pay to get it installed. You don't have to have that first factor in. You can, you can skip that. Yeah.

Oh, that's good. Oh, I'm excited about that. Yeah, I can't wait. That's good. Cool. Dan, how is the labour market for steel frame homes going at the moment? Uh, look, it, when we really started to incorporate the product, you know, two years ago, it was a bit of a challenge to begin with, um, as a new product to the local market, obviously an established product Australia wide, but as a new product to the local market, um, there were some challenges in the last two years, the capacity has gone up 500%.

So five times, which is huge. Huge. We've actually seen some brick layers. Move from doing the brick walls to actually wanting to do steel frames. It's a bit easier on the body. It's a quicker job as well. So we're really happy with the work that's been put in to increase the capacity, um, BlueScope was telling us the other day that WA is their fastest growing market, which is exciting.

So. So not only do we have the capacity, the clients at the end of the day are chasing the product. Yep. Um, and I think it's important for Perth as we need to continue to build. I know you had the podcast with Trent talking about the lack of supply. The only way we're ever going to overcome that lack of supply is we need alternatives.

We can't keep doing the same thing because the bricklayer trade isn't growing. Yeah. It's just not growing fast enough. So we need to look at these alternatives. Alternative options to keep up with everything. Yep. Could you tell us some, a little bit of info about Centurion, I guess, where everything's made in the factory and who are they and what do they do?

Yeah, sure. So, um, Centurion's our main supplier for the walls and the roofs. They deal exclusively with Blue Scope TrueCore Steel. I'm sure you would have seen the, uh, ads because they, they spend quite a bit of money promoting that product. Look, locally based in Malaga, they've now got six machines that roll the materials for them, which from my understanding would probably make them the biggest one in Perth.

Right up there around Australia. And they've just worked really, really hard to build their capacity. And they're doing really well at the moment. We're, we're very proud and very happy to be partnered with them. Awesome. That's good. Cool. What are the key differences in terms of durability and longevity between steel frame and traditional brick construction?

Yeah, great question. So there's not a lot of difference. Um, Blue Scope, um, backs all their products with a 50 year guarantee. So you've got, yeah, you've got peace of mind there that the product we're putting into your home is meant to last. Yeah, and we've seen the results of that throughout Australia. So it's not like we're the first guinea pig couple to do it.

Yeah, yeah. It is a Um, popular product throughout the rest of Australia. And, but if you're comparing brick and steel frame together, it's just about, yeah, knowing what works for you and your home, but there's no specific huge differences that would mean one's worse or better than the other. Both are great products.

Yes. We're just lucky we've got the high ceiling detail. Yep. So it gives us a little bit of a competitive advantage with the value for money proposition for people chasing high ceilings. Um, but both are good products. Yep. To wrap up today, what advice or recommendations would you give to first home buyers who are considering steel frame brick veneer construction?

Look, I would suggest speaking to companies that offer both products. Yep. I think that's the only way you'll get an unbiased opinion. Um, both products are good, both have different advantages over the other. So yeah, just be doing the research, but making sure you're not just speaking to people who can only offer you double brick.

Yeah. But likewise, please don't just speak to people who offer steel because you're going to get a very biased opinion. Yeah. To work out what's right for you and to educate yourself appropriately, I'd be speaking to a company which does both. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming in today and chatting all about steel.

I'm sure if anyone has any questions, feel free to message me and then I can contact Dan and we can answer your questions for you. But yeah, if you have any questions about steel frame, let us know. And thank you so much for coming in today, Dan. Thank you for having me.

Thank you so much for tuning in to the home building like a boss. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learnt something new. Remember, you've got this and I've got your back. Until next time, stay inspired, stay informed, and stay confident on your building journey. I can't wait to chat with you on the next episode.

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