Client Building Journey: Steph & Chris

Jaimi Matray: Welcome to Home Building Like a Boss, the podcast dedicated to helping first home buyers in Perth build their dream home with ease and excitement. I'm Jamie, your host and go to building broker. Are you ready to feel empowered, in control and excited about your building journey? I'll help guide you with expert advice, insider tips and tricks and real life stories to help you navigate the confusing world of home building.

Let's go. Tune in as I take you on the journey to building your home like a boss.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I skipped an episode last week actually. Life happened and Life got in the way. So we are back this week with another episode and I have Steph here with me, who is an old client. Steph and Chris have recently just picked up the keys to their home.

So they've gone through the journey and we started it about 18 months ago and they probably moved in a month ago, six weeks ago. Yeah. So I have Steph here with me today. We're missing Chris cause he's on a camping trip. So welcome Steph and thank you for being on the episode. Hi, 

Steph: thank you 

Jaimi Matray: so much for having me.

Yeah. All right. Tell us a little bit about yourself, you and Chris and how you decided and got into building. Yeah, absolutely. I know you guys at the start were going back and forth with established and build quite a lot. And Chris was very against building and you were more towards building. So like, how did you guys make that decision between established and building?

Steph: So that is correct. I was a little more into the idea of building initially than Chris was. So we bought our first place. About eight years ago, and it was always meant to just be a temporary thing, a beautiful little house, but definitely it was going to be too small for us to be able to, you know, grow, grow a family and everything down the track.

Yeah. So we definitely started realizing in the last three years that we needed to find somewhere else to live. So we started looking at established houses, probably end of 2021. Yep. And. And that didn't go the best for us. I think at the end of the day, like we had, we had our budget and we haven't looked for houses for a long time.

And what we were finding very quickly was that the houses that were on the market at the very top end of our budget were just not going to be suitable for one reason or another. But mostly I think because they. We would have needed a lot of work done. Yeah. So we just knew that even if we bought one of those established houses.

We would have no money left to be able to fix it up, anything that needed reno's or anything like that. We just knew that we wouldn't be able to do it. And we didn't want to stretch ourselves that thin financially. Yeah. Yeah. So I started looking into building and started seeing all of the horrible stories and everything that, that lots of people were experiencing.

So that was probably about December, January. Um, so January, 2022. And. It was difficult initially, kind of trying to do some research and everything. We started going to display villages, talking to some consultants and reps there about all the different options with building and Yeah, I was a lot more keen to to get into it.

I think than Chris was He was being understandably very cautious. 

Jaimi Matray: Cautious is very normal feeling to Experience and have. So he was dotting his T's, dotting his T's, dotting his I's and crossing his T's of making sure that he was feeling comfortable. I guess, how did you guys feel after that initial info session?

So you went display shopping. Chatted to a few builders and reps and then we obviously connected and then we caught up for an info session How did you guys feel after that? I know it was a while ago though 

Steph: Yeah, it was it was a while ago Yeah, so I mean don't get me wrong. I definitely was had had some reservations as well I think both of us needed a little more information To be able to make that decision for sure.

So I was really lucky that I just stumbled upon your Instagram page and yes, I think it was probably, I reached out to you in February and we had our discovery call and then we met a few days later, I think, to, to ask all of our questions, dot those I's and cross those T's. Yeah. Yeah. And definitely after that, after we'd spoken to you asked.

All of our questions, you took us through a lot of the different processes, talked about the different builders that you could recommend and that you worked with. After that, we definitely felt a lot better. Yeah. 

Jaimi Matray: Good. Yeah. Gave you all the education and information that you needed to make an educated and informed decision, basically.

Yeah, 

Steph: definitely. So that conversation, Yeah. That we had with you and the, the back and forth messages and everything is what ultimately got us over the line in making that decision to build. 

Jaimi Matray: Yeah, awesome. And what struggles did you guys experience in the start of the process? And even through pre construction, I guess, with finding a block of land, looking for builders, what were some of the things that you found that you...

struggled with and some advice you could give other people who are looking at building? Good 

Steph: question. Thank you. Struggles we had, we definitely did struggle finding a block. We had lots of members of the family doing research for us and sending us blocks that they were finding online. I got lots, we got lots from.

Like Chris's parents from siblings, just like, have you seen this one? What about this one? It was very overwhelming, but amazing. And we were really grateful to have so many people on board just straight away. We had that support. So we struggled with finding the block. Mainly 

Jaimi Matray: because of the size and location.

Did you find you were struggling with the block? It was like trying to find that decent size for you guys because I know you were looking at like a larger block rather than a smaller block. Yes, 

Steph: yes. So we knew that we wanted to be looking at building a house four by two ideally and with space for a backyard.

That was really important for us because we've never had a nice backyard in our old place. We just had a little courtyard. So we knew that we wanted. So, to have enough room, to have all the rooms we wanted plus a backyard. So, what we found was a lot of newer estates just didn't have the block sizes that were going to work for us, unless we had gone really, really far south, because we always knew we wanted to live south of the river.

Yep. And those much, much bigger block sizes. We're a lot further south, probably than we wanted to live. So we struggled with finding that happy medium between a block that was going to be big enough and in an area that we wanted to live. Yep. 

Jaimi Matray: Yeah. That's a good way of putting it. And yeah, you kind of have to, I mean, everyone comes across this, that fine line of, yeah, the size and the location and what suits your lifestyle.

Where do you want to live essentially and what advice would you give people who are going through the process or looking to go through the process? 

Steph: One thing that I remember that you said to us when we were oh, yeah So when we were having trouble with making a decision on Whether we wanted to prioritize with going for the much bigger block, but live further away than we would like, or live closer to the area we wanted, but perhaps on not as big of a block as we would like.

You said to us, you cannot compromise on location. And for us, That made it clear that we knew we wanted to live in the area that we were in. Yep. And I think that if we had compromised on the location, we would not have been necessarily happy with that decision if we'd ended up being further away. From our families and just not in the area that we're familiar and comfortable with.

Yeah, we definitely would have regretted that like yes, we would have still had a beautiful home But we weren't willing to compromise on where we went. So that's probably my biggest tip, which is not even mine It's Jamie's, but it's yours now. Yeah, we had to make compromises in the design of our house and in the size of our backyard, but ultimately we are in the area that we love.

We're in a beautiful new estate. We're in a nice area that we are comfortable and familiar with. And it's an area that we Want to live in forever. Yeah, yeah. Or at least the foreseeable 

Jaimi Matray: future. Future, yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I was like, oh, what Tiff is she gonna say? What did I say? ? Um, but yeah, you can't compromise on your location.

Like you, once you've got your block and your house is on your block. You can change the house, technically, you could knock the whole thing down and start again, but you can't change the block. So that is good. And I'm glad that obviously, that makes it very clear in the decision making of we're happy to compromise or no, the location is important.

And for some people, location isn't a priority and it is the big yard, big house. I don't mind driving a further 20 minutes South, but if location is important, you end up having to compromise on the house or the size. Because at the end of the day, everybody has a budget and we've got to make it work within the budget.

Steph: Yes, exactly. Like my best friend and her husband, they've built as well. They built a couple of years ago and for them, they didn't care about location. They just knew that they wanted a nice big block within their budget. And so they've built the house of their dreams. Yeah. And it is a little bit further away, but for them, it's worth it.

Jaimi Matray: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And everyone's different and that's... The best part about building, I guess you get to decide and choose what works for you and your lifestyle and what you want to do. Let's chat about the next kind of stage of the process of designing your home and picking your builder. So we've secured you guys the perfect block.

We put a bunch of blocks on hold, went back and forth. We checked the site works. We did all that stuff. Let's go through the design phase. Tell us a little bit about how you guys found the design phase and I know we had to obviously customize It was a full custom design to suit your block because it was on a corner.

Yeah. How did you find that process? Did you find it easy? Hard? 

Steph: Let's chat about it. Uh, we found it hard, but mostly because we didn't know. So, um, we've been learning a whole lot about designing houses and so yes, we are on a corner block and it's a very funny shape. It's a, I think it's called an irregular block, I guess.

So we found out very quickly that. Any kind of house designs that you see on builders websites are designed for those perfect square or rectangle shaped blocks, uh, whereas our house or our block is 15 meters wide at the front and eight meters wide at the back and it's on a corner. So it's a bit of a funny.

Triangular type shape. So we found out very quickly that any of those Standard designs you see online. We're not going to work on our block. So then we luckily were able to work with you To come up with a custom design that would, yeah, as you said, maximize the space on the block. So that was really, that was really cool for us, I think, because we learned so much.

Every time we'd, we'd message you and say, why can't we do this? And you would say, Because you can't build a wall like that or, or something like that. So lots 

Jaimi Matray: of learning during that 

Steph: process, lots of learning. Yeah. We found that part hard initially because we didn't know a whole lot, but the deeper we got into it with you, the more back and forth we had with.

Changing the design and you were so amazing with all of your ideas and changing things about the design hundred times, the more we learned. Yeah. And so that was a really enjoyable part for us was we learned a lot in the pre construction process and it helped us, I think, to get a lot more understanding about.

Why something might have had to be done a particular way before we'd even signed up 

Jaimi Matray: with a builder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome Yeah, yeah, it's hard and especially with yet a regular shape blocks. You look at all these Standard designs and you're like, oh, I'm gonna put this on the block and it's like yeah, that doesn't work Like yeah, but you're like, I don't know why it doesn't work.

So you don't understand or register. So I guess Yeah, I was there to kind of help and support and if you had an idea, but it didn't work. Okay. That idea doesn't work. How about we try it this way? This might work. Yeah. Doing it like that. Yeah. Throughout the process, I know like we obviously chatted a lot, WhatsApp all the time, calls all the time, screenshots, documents, voice notes, everything all the time.

And then we had. Pre pre start consultation in here as well, which that is a part of a service that I provide to clients to be able to help support you going into pre start. How did you find, uh, I guess going through the building contract and getting ready for pre start stage after we had finalized your.

Steph: After we'd gone back and forth with you on the custom design and you recommended for our needs that Levita would be a really good builder for us. We signed with Levita and then that's when we were able to move into the next part of looking at all of the finishes, the, all of the design options. And that was really, really intense, but in a good way.

And again, we learned a lot more. Like, I learned that I actually do care what color my gutters are. Yeah, when did you 

Jaimi Matray: ever think we would? Yeah, like you just don't think about that. I was, um, well, I have their friends and their. I just signed on a block of land this week. She was like, I've never driven around an estate before and looked at what colour roofs there are.

But now I have to look at that and I'm like, yes, you do. Yeah. 

Steph: Yeah. It's so funny how the process just changes how you look at other people's houses. And I don't even just mean. Just in our estate like we've got some beautiful houses in our estate, but when we just drive Anywhere and you're driving through the suburbs and you'll be like, oh That's an interesting choice having that color gutter with that color fascia or something.

Yeah, it's just it's ridiculous But it's it's all part of it. Yeah, and When we were getting ready for pre start. Yeah, it was overwhelming one of the benefits of Of being with Levita is you have an online portal that they give you a 3D render of your house and you can see all of the different color options for every little part of the house before you even go to pre start.

So when we looked on there and looking at all of the different options for showers and Faucets and flooring and paint and all of that stuff. It was very overwhelming endless options endless options and And we had so many different ideas on what each of us wanted, and it was a lot. So we were really, really glad to be able to have the pre pre start consult.

Before we went to pre start, we sat down with Barmaid for hours and she took us through every little part of our house. We already had a pretty good idea of some stuff of the coloring that we wanted. We knew that we really liked a wood look for our cabinetry. We knew that we, the kind of feeling we wanted was a warm and earthy kind of vibe inside, but we just didn't.

have the skills, the design knowledge to bring it all together and find the bits and pieces that would work perfectly. And I know that a lot of pre start is a very overwhelming experience for anybody. And the fact that we were. able to have that pre pre start consult because we were working with you just made such a difference for us when we went to pre start we were still there pretty much all day and we were still exhausted and our eyes were swimming at the end of it but we went in with so much more.

knowledge and so much more preparation for making all of the decisions we had to make. Yeah. 

Jaimi Matray: Pre start is so overwhelming and it's, I feel like it's a very underrated part of the process and it is such an important part of the process that you need to get right. I believe that having that part of the process to support clients is so necessary.

And Maddie's here doing it now in house with us and then she kind of. Is in WhatsApp with us, checking variations, doing that pre pre start process to give that support. And same as what Barmaid did before, like it's just so invaluable, that consult. And it makes you feel better walking into pre start.

Because imagine how you would feel walking into pre start not being prepared. Yeah, and it blows my mind that people 

Steph: do that. People do that. Yeah, and it matters which builder you go with as well. So we were very lucky to have been with Levita because our pre start experience with them was just, it was so smooth.

It was seamless. We had a really great time. But then, and we went through everything, but then my sister and her husband, they built a couple of years ago as well, just, just after COVID happened. And when they went for their pre start with a different builder, the pre start consultant was taking them through that, their builders.

Showroom and the consultant did not take them to look at any of the doors, the internal doors. And they didn't realize until they got home at the end of the day and they'd already signed their pre start variation and said, yeah, this is what we want. But they knew that they had wanted different doors, um, to upgrade their internal doors.

And when they contacted the builder and said, hey, we never even got to look at them. They said, well, you've signed it now. You can't do anything about it. 

Jaimi Matray: No work. Like that's just so bad. But, um, but a lot of builders do do that. And it's like, how can you cram all those decisions into one day? Yeah. But then also make them sign off on the day and that you can't change your mind.

Like clients go back and forth with pre sus stuff all the time. You guys went back and forth. 

Steph: Oh my God. We did. I think we changed our bathroom tiles two or three times. Not, not in a major way, but I think. The third time was because after the second time the tile company were like, we're actually not sure Which one we have to go with now because I think it was there was a bit of miscommunication So we had to go back a third time and say no, this is what we want And then even once construction started we suddenly changed our mind about the color of our grout for our splash back Yes, that's right.

We changed the color of our bathroom benches and Even though we had already signed off on everything, we were still really lucky that we could make those changes. 

Jaimi Matray: Yeah, which is why it's so important to pick a good builder. 

Steph: Yes, 

Jaimi Matray: absolutely. Yeah, and have the right team that around you to give that support and not necessarily just the builder, but everyone else that's involved in the process too.

Yeah, because I 

Steph: remember even the night before we went to. Pre start, we came here to see you because we really needed help with our electrical. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we, we knew that we would, after handover, be wanting to put in down lights and everything. And we didn't really have any idea about how best to do the layout for the lighting that the build was going to include.

And so you sat down with us and went through our whole electrical plan, helped us make the changes that we needed to put in extra power points. You know, we had ideas about where we wanted to put in those GPOs. Yeah. There's a lot of, no, you won't need one there, but you should probably put one here, that, that kind of thing.

So that was really, really valuable for us. And I feel like the electrical plan, it's a very underrated thing, but it is so important. So important. Yeah. Yeah. And especially for us at PreStar, it's one of the last things that you go through and you just, your brain is fried. Yeah. So the fact that we came in with a plan that you'd helped draw up for us.

Was just invaluable. It just made such a difference. Oh, 

Jaimi Matray: good. Yeah. And it is electrical plants are intense and you've got to do, if you want to do it after hand over, you just need to have it. The provision's done in the right way with the builder to be able to do it easier after hand over. And it is right at the end.

And then you're like, where do you want everything? And you're like, I have no idea. 

Steph: You tell me where I want it. Yeah, exactly. Like we knew we wanted to put a pendant light above the kitchen island. And you have that knowledge to say. Well, then you need to make sure they put the builder puts in a junction box and just little things like that, that we just have no idea about.

Jaimi Matray: And if you don't know, you don't know. So then you don't know to ask, so then you don't put it in and then you're like, Oh man. I didn't do that right, but you don't 

Steph: know. And then it ends up costing you so much more if you then have to get an electrician to put in a junction box or you didn't put a GPO in a particular spot on an internal wall that you really needed one but you built double bricks so it's going to cost a lot of money and time.

It's just all of that stuff that was really, really invaluable for 

Jaimi Matray: us. Yeah, and you don't get taught this stuff at school, and I really think you should get taught this stuff at school because you go to build a house and then you're like, I don't know anything about building a house, how am I 

Steph: supposed to build a house?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And for us, we were very involved. in the process. And we both really enjoyed all of the learning that came with it and just being able to talk about, Oh God, I had so many unsolicited conversations with people about all the things I was learning about building because it's just, it was an exciting time for us.

It feels really good to have so much more knowledge now. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jaimi Matray: I love that. And I, I love when clients are involved and they want to learn and I'm like, yeah, I get to teach you and we all get to learn together. It's good. It's amazing when you want to. Learn, and now you have that knowledge and you can go do it again, or you know, you've got it there and being involved in the process in your own home is such an exciting thing.

Yeah, 

Steph: definitely. What 

Jaimi Matray: was your favorite part of the whole 

Steph: process? I mean handover. Oh yes. 

Jaimi Matray: That 

Steph: is definitely out there for sure. Yeah. It's interesting because we had a lot of different favourite parts and it was, it's one of those things where. The further into the build you get, then the next thing that happens is your favorite part.

Yeah. So I think though, the first part that really stood out for us once we got to construction was our slab going down. Yeah. Yeah. We were really lucky that our slab got laid on a Saturday. Oh, yes. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we called it Slabber Day. But because it happened on a Saturday, we were able to be there to watch it happen.

Oh. And so that was a really, really special thing for us. And we were able to be there to watch it happen and that was a really special thing for us. We were there for that first pour and watching the pour happen, watching the concrete go down for the foundation of your home, it's just, it was such a special experience for us.

Getting to finally see the beginning of the construction, even though all of the site works had happened and the footings had gone in, seeing the actual slab and looking at that and knowing that that was. It's going to be the ground that we were walking on, you know, the rest of our lives or a good part of our lives.

Yeah. It was very exciting. Oh. And then I think from there, yeah, I mean, handover, yeah, but every other part in between, like when the walls went up, yeah. The whole of 

Jaimi Matray: construction is so exciting because you just get to see everything that you've worked so hard for in pre construction. Yeah. You've. Gone over all the plans a hundred times, you've looked at colours a hundred times, you've signed off on everything, you've re looked at everything again, you've looked at final plans, contracts, everything, and signed it all off, and now all the hard work.

You're just sitting back and watching it come to life. It's pretty cool. 

Steph: Yeah, and because we lived so close to where our build was happening, We lived within walking distance, so we loved, uh, like getting home from work and going for a walk past the block or past the house, the build, to see what progress had happened that day.

We had so many Zambrero picnics there, like when the walls were going up and stuff, and it was just really, really exciting. So I think if I had to pick just one overarching favorite thing aside from handover, it was It's just watching the whole thing happen from start to finish. Yep. 

Jaimi Matray: Amazing. I love that.

That's a good one. I like it. Now, being in your home, let's talk about that. You guys have obviously, you've gone through pre construction, gone through construction. You've watched it go up. Now you're in your home. How does it feel to be in your home? 

Steph: It feels amazing. Amazing. It's interesting because both of us felt very quickly, even while we were moving in, which, moving is horrible.

Moving is the worst part, absolutely. But even in those days of exhaustion, when we were moving stuff back and forth from our old house to the new place and not being able to find the things that we needed to cook and our clothes being in garbage bags on the floor, like the whole thing. Um, even despite all of that, from the moment we moved in, we just felt this new sense of peace.

Yeah. Of just so much happiness to just be in this house that we had dreamed of for so long that we'd only ever seen on pieces of paper until the wall started going up and all of that. To be there after imagining being in it for so long. Yeah. It's just. The best feeling. 

Jaimi Matray: Yeah. Amazing. And I know this, what, like one thing, when you think about established a new build, you always, most people are like, ah, nah.

Put new build in the bin because it takes too long. Was it worth the wait to build and design and get into your 

Steph: own home? Oh, absolutely. It was definitely worth the wait. It's like what they say, though, the days are long, but the years are short or in our case the year was short. There were days and sometimes weeks where it just felt like it took so long and it felt like it was never going to happen That we were never going to move in because it was just taking so long But we obviously knew that it was going to happen and the end was going to come and I think it absolutely Was worth the wait for us.

We were very lucky that we could afford to wait And to be to wait through that process. We've not regretted it at all for a moment. 

Jaimi Matray: Amazing. Such a good result. Yeah. How did you feel working with me and having a building broker verse? I mean, you obviously don't have to compare to working with a builder directly, but I guess the support and the process, how did you guys feel?

Steph: We've said probably more than a hundred times that we couldn't have done this build process without you. It is an extremely important decision to make to build and everything that comes with it is. It's a lot, it's very overwhelming and to have had that support from you from the beginning has just been invaluable for us.

And when we talk about how the whole process has been throughout and we tell people, yeah, we've got a building broker and this is what she does. And this is how she's helped us, you know, with liaising back and forth with the developer, putting different blocks on hold. For us, uh, doing all of the paperwork, having the connections with like the settlement agent and All of those other little nitty gritty bits that we just didn't have to worry about because you were looking after them for us.

It made such a difference to us. Having that support on WhatsApp, being able to message you whenever we had questions when we didn't understand something, when it came down to crunch time with signing off on the final design with Levita, just having you there. Every step of the way was just, like, there's no words, like, it's just been, it's been incredible and we are so, so glad that I just happened to stumble upon your Instagram one day because it just made such a difference to the overall experience for us.

I think if we hadn't have found you. I think if we hadn't have found you, we probably still would have ended up building, but I don't think we would have had the experience that we had. And I think we would have ended up with a different builder because we had not really even heard of La Vida before we started the building process.

I think, yeah, we would have ended up with a different builder that probably wouldn't have gone as well for us. 

Jaimi Matray: Yeah. Yeah. And all those little things. Make such a huge difference in the process and you don't think, you think about making one big decision to build, but then it's like the flow and effect of all the decisions for the next 18 months and it's a lot.

It's so cool to say like, now you guys in your house, like. The whole process has been and done in the house. It's like that bittersweet feeling because I'm like, why miss you guys? 

Steph: Yes, it's definitely been bittersweet for us as well, for sure, because you were such a huge part of our life for the past 18 months with such a hugely important decision in our life.

And I think it's been amazing just having you on our side. Anytime, any sort of little issues came up for us. Anytime that there was something we weren't sure about, we knew anytime that we could just message you and you would reply. Sometimes it'd just be a voice note. I'm just, I'm driving at the moment, but I'll just reply before I get to my next meeting.

Like, but you always made time for us at every single stage. Oh yeah. So 

Jaimi Matray: exciting. And I think to wrap it up, what. What is one more other important piece of advice that you would like to give to somebody in the process or looking at building? 

Steph: Hire a building broker. That was not prompted by the way. Oh, that's good.

I like that. No, but it's, it's honestly true. Um, hire a building broker, especially Jamie. I know there's a few around and I think there are a bunch of different building brokers around who would work with. different builders or people with different priorities from what we had. So find a building broken that works for you, especially if it's Jamie.

Like I really think that we've really enjoyed the whole experience and building a house is always going to be stressful, but when you've got. Someone like Jamie there to talk you off the ledge, so to speak, all the time, to deal with the chunkiest parts of that stress for you to put your mind at ease, all of that, it just has made such a difference.

And yeah, so that would be my biggest advice is hire a building broker. It is well worth the hire building broker because it was well worth the money for us to have your services. And I can't imagine what our home could have been if we hadn't have had you. 

Jaimi Matray: Oh, thank you. I love that. Such a good piece of advice.

Everybody listen. Amazing. Cool. Thank you so much for coming on the episode today, Steph. It's been amazing having you and I hope everyone's learned a little bit about. The building process from a client perspective and how it all works. And yeah, if you have any questions, feel free to message me on Instagram.

Steph and Chris also have their own Instagram account too. So if you want to reach out to them and have a building chat, I can send you their Instagram as well. What's your Instagram handle 

Steph: actually. It is house atop the hill house atop the hill. That's right. Yes. So you can absolutely send me a message.

I love it when people message me on Instagram and say, can I just ask what you did about this? Or like what kind of tiles do you have? What kind of tiles do you have? Oh, I really liked the look of your cabinetry. What color is that? Like all of that. I love talking about my house. And I love talking about Jamie.

Jaimi Matray: Yeah. It's good for people to connect with other people in the process too. So then you can have a different perspective of someone who's recently just been through it. Or if you're going through it, you've got another person 

Steph: to chat with. Yeah, definitely. Thank you for having me, Jamie. It's been really fun.

Yeah, it's been good. Thank you.

Jaimi Matray: Thank you so much for tuning in to the Homebuilding Like a Boss podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something new. Remember, you've got this and I've got your back. 

Steph: Until next time, 

Jaimi Matray: stay inspired, stay informed, and stay confident. I can't wait to chat with you on the next episode. Don't forget to check out the show notes for more information and free resources.

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